In defense of Norse and Native American cultures

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turnop
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In defense of Norse and Native American cultures

Post by turnop » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:42 pm

Keeping in mind both that Norse culture is often requested and that the mod team's goal is to create cultures that are geographically and culturally distinct in the 11th century, I'm of the opinion that Norse and Native American cultures (either Fort Ancient or the Hohokam) should be the final cultures added 'officially' to the mod.

The Norse, as it seems, are competing with the Inuit for a spot as the 'arctic' climate, and it's generally believed that they hold too much cultural similarity with the Normans, who are descended from Viking conquerors in France. However, I'd make the case that by the 11th century, while Normans were effectively a classic God-fearing Western European peoples, some pagan Norse societies were still in their hayday - the 11th century saw the (short-lived) colonization of Canada by pagan Norse settlers, and most of Scandinavia was not effectively Christianized yet; Denmark would be the first to have a leader convert to Christianity in the early 12th century. This unique environment could create a very interesting village-building settlement, with the settling down of raider viking-types into stable, civilized and advanced settlements while maintaining unique Viking traditions. Town halls could be a Mead-hall for the Jarl's martial settlement, a Thing for the Thane's agricultural settlement, and a Asatru temple/burial mound for the Volva's religious settlement. This'd make the Norse the only culture to have a female settlement leader as well. The religious settlement could even host a small mission and a priest to represent the growing Christian sentiment in the North. Overall, I feel there's a lot that could be done with the Norse as a culture.

Which brings me to my second point - choosing them over Inuits, because Inuits have a great deal more overlap with a second unique culture that could be added - Northern Native American tribes. Inuit culture as a whole shares a great deal of cultural tradition with other northern native american tribes of the modern U.S., such as building totem poles, shamanistic, animalistic religious rites, an inherently nomadic and hunter-gatherer lifestyle, and the use of collective, ritual dances and music. Ironically, some traditions of the two even overlap with tribal elements of Norse-Germanic culture, such as the building of burial mounds for respected leaders. If Inuit culture is added in, it removes the possibility for both Norse and Northern Native cultures as distinct cultures due to its geographical overlap with the Norse and its cultural overlap with the Northern Native American, whereas if Norse and Northern Native are added it's two completely distinct cultures in terms of geographic space and cultural-religious identity, which would seem to add a lot more to the mod.

Anyway, that's just my two cents on it. The mod doesn't even really need any more base cultures, quite frankly, but I do think some more tribal societies (and islam/african paganism but that's a completely different point) would be interesting. If you ever do consider adding in more as core cultures to the mod, I hope you'll keep these points in mind! Would love to interact with Native Shamans or Volvas. :D

kjdiehl
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Re: In defense of Norse and Native American cultures

Post by kjdiehl » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:49 pm

turnop wrote:If Inuit culture is added in, it removes the possibility for both Norse and Northern Native cultures as distinct cultures due to its geographical overlap with the Norse and its cultural overlap with the Northern Native American, whereas if Norse and Northern Native are added it's two completely distinct cultures in terms of geographic space and cultural-religious identity, which would seem to add a lot more to the mod.
All good points, but this to me is the most compelling.

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felinoel
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Re: In defense of Norse and Native American cultures

Post by felinoel » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:53 pm

kjdiehl wrote:
turnop wrote:If Inuit culture is added in, it removes the possibility for both Norse and Northern Native cultures as distinct cultures due to its geographical overlap with the Norse and its cultural overlap with the Northern Native American, whereas if Norse and Northern Native are added it's two completely distinct cultures in terms of geographic space and cultural-religious identity, which would seem to add a lot more to the mod.
All good points, but this to me is the most compelling.
I created the Inuits because people wanted culture representation for citizens of USA and the Inuits would have been the most unique being a snowy culture. Sure the Norse would have been a cool snowy addition and hey I might even make that in the future because that does sound fun, but I didn't make the Inuits because of the snow, I made it for the representation for specifically citizens of the USA (I based the Inuits mostly off of the Inupiat tribes which resided primarily in Alaska)

But with the addition of the Mayans now we have two separate Native American cultures in Millenaire, sure they are from opposite sides of the planet but we really have enough Native American cultures now. Fort Ancient or the Hohokam are some interesting choices but we had enough warm weather cultures, if anything Millenaire needs more desert-y cultures imo

HeyItsOcarina
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Re: In defense of Norse and Native American cultures

Post by HeyItsOcarina » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:58 pm

I'd like to see not just the Norse in as an "official culture" but maybe even the Cherokee as a "culture" in the game. They were around, albeit not as a "nation" in the 11th Century, but as a people group in their ancestral homeland of Eastern Tennessee/Western North Carolina, and their culture is quite interesting.
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felinoel
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Re: In defense of Norse and Native American cultures

Post by felinoel » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:04 pm

HeyItsOcarina wrote:I'd like to see not just the Norse in as an "official culture" but maybe even the Cherokee as a "culture" in the game. They were around, albeit not as a "nation" in the 11th Century, but as a people group in their ancestral homeland of Eastern Tennessee/Western North Carolina, and their culture is quite interesting.
Unless the Cherokee has any sort of unique architecture, I don't see that as likely... /:

See my quote:
felinoel wrote: But with the addition of the Mayans now we have two separate Native American cultures in Millenaire, sure they are from opposite sides of the planet but we really have enough Native American cultures now. Fort Ancient or the Hohokam are some interesting choices but we had enough warm weather cultures, if anything Millenaire needs more desert-y cultures imo

Megamerican
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Re: In defense of Norse and Native American cultures

Post by Megamerican » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:27 pm

Might I suggest the Rus? They're also a Norse-infleunced culture that developed along Russia's rivers. They'd be more distinct from the Normans than the Scandinavian Norse.

As for Native Americans, the Mississippians would be the best choice. They were pretty prolific city-builders.

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felinoel
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Re: In defense of Norse and Native American cultures

Post by felinoel » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:17 pm

Megamerican wrote:Might I suggest the Rus? They're also a Norse-infleunced culture that developed along Russia's rivers. They'd be more distinct from the Normans than the Scandinavian Norse.

As for Native Americans, the Mississippians would be the best choice. They were pretty prolific city-builders.
Many people have suggested the Rus, but if you feel the Rus and Mississippians would make good additions go make them, Millenaire is super easy to add cultures too and based on this map we could use people from those areas...

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Vuu
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Re: In defense of Norse and Native American cultures

Post by Vuu » Tue May 08, 2018 12:03 pm

They'll get added sooner or later. If i remember correctly, the Byzantines were first an add-on culture. Similar would probably occur with other custom cultures. But before adding new cultures, existing ones should be further enhanced. Byzantines and the Japanese still have no creation quest

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felinoel
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Re: In defense of Norse and Native American cultures

Post by felinoel » Tue May 15, 2018 8:35 pm

Vuu wrote:They'll get added sooner or later. If i remember correctly, the Byzantines were first an add-on culture. Similar would probably occur with other custom cultures.
Same for the Inuits!
Yeah MinerMiah did a great job with custom content and then vanished sadly...

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