Update on Millénaire

Post by **Kinniken** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:18 pm

Hi guys,

I've been receiving quite a lot of mails from different people on the topic (sorry to those whose mails I did not reply to) and felt it was time to give you an update... not a very good one I'm afraid. The long and short of it is that I just haven't been able to find the time to really progress on an 1.8 update; I estimate I'd need something like 20-30 hours to complete a first release and some more to stabilise it and I just don't have the time.

Since I don't expect this to change soon it's time to look at alternatives... Quite a few people, here and via mails, have suggested open-sourcing Millénaire. While this is an option honestly for me it's a last resort. Millénaire is very large, complex, and not very well documented... Upgrading to 1.8 in particular is a really big job that could only be done by one or two experienced and very motivated coder, with support from me, so I'd rather start with people interested contacting me. Decent knowledge of Minecraft modding is a requirement, you can't learn it while working on something like this.

If one or more person with the skill and motivation to work on this comes forward I'll really do my best to find time to help them get to grip with the project, and if I can to improve what little doc I have on the source.

Thanks all for the interest and support you've shown even after all those years!

K.

TheAlphaTurkey · Post by **TheAlphaTurkey** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:49 pm

Thanks for all your help and support for this great mod over the years Kinniken!

As a side note, I'm more than happy to help anyone with getting in touch with other coders/current coders for the mod and stuff. Also, if you are to start coding, please let the Master of Translations know as then he can give you the updated language files to push out with the new updates.

Thanks all!

oblisgr · Post by **oblisgr** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:47 pm

Glad to hear for ye.
Allowing the mod to go open-source is a good idea.
Since the mod was one of the best around, it will be not a hard time to find people want to continue supporting your creation.

viking132 · Post by **viking132** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:10 pm

Well i'm sorry to hear things arent going well with the mod I love millenaire so I hope it works out good luck

MoonCutter2B · Post by **MoonCutter2B** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:18 pm

Sad to hear that your time for modding is close to zero.
But I'm happy for all the hours/days/weeks I'v had the pleasure to play MC with Millenaire, thanks mate!

So now, what is the best way to find the right modders for continuing this nice mod?
A new topic on MC forum? Post something on Reddit? Ask Direwolf20 or someone else with a lot of followers to twitter about it? or?

/Mooncutter2B

PS Kinniken - you should add Millenaire to your LInkedIn profile

DS

Post by **felinoel** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:04 am

I'll ask around to find some modders.

Ether · Post by **Ether** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:20 am

GalianRyu was asking here few weeks ago about helping out Millenaire. I wonder, does he still check this forum sometimes or lost hope?

Ruff Ghanor · Post by **Ruff Ghanor** » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:49 pm

And will the new version of Millenaire be just an update to 1.8 or are you planning to add new quests/buildings/villages etc.

MoonCutter2B · Post by **MoonCutter2B** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:29 am

I think Kinniken is still look for some experienced mod developers to help him with the 1.8 update.
I guess first step is to check how much can be updated to 1.8 and how much has to be rewritten.
And then there will be time to start with new stuff, there are loads of suggestions gathered over the years.

As far as I know a lot of the cultures, etc has been created by other than Kinniken, some of it can be found in the Library, other stuff are still work in progress. I hope all these creative people continue making Millenaire the mod that it is.

Zoythrus · Post by **Zoythrus** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:27 pm

Hmmm....a very interesting development. We're very glad that you gave us this mod in the first place, Kinniken, and we're sorry that you can't continue to work on it. Thank you for all of your time and effort.

Now, whomever is going to take up the mantle of making this is going to need a set of rules as to what should and should not be added. One of the main issues with open source mods is the potential for a bunch of tiny offshoots that completely miss the point of the original mod. So, I feel that we, the community, with assistance form Kinniken and other contributors, should put up a list of DOs and DONTs for the next developer, so we can keep this mod with such high quality.

Here's to the future of Millenaire!
*tips glass*

GalianRyu · Post by **GalianRyu** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:02 am

I am still definitely interested in helping. It has been a while since I have checked the forum, been busy with updating my mod.

I'm just about done with the 1.8.9 update though, and once I am I would love to see what I can do to help. I have tried to find a way to contact Kinniken directly, but I will try again.

If you happen to see this though Kinniken, feel free to PM me on MCF (BladedChaos) or email [email protected]

MoonCutter2B · Post by **MoonCutter2B** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:57 pm

Try sending a mail from this forum. I did and I think my mail was one of the mail Kinniken was refering to.
I think he has a LinkedIn account under his real name also but that is not confirmed

GalianRyu · Post by **GalianRyu** » Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:24 am

Got a hold of Kinniken, now we just have to start getting everything updated! Woo!!!

MoonCutter2B · Post by **MoonCutter2B** » Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:40 pm

I'm very very happy to hear this! It's very good news.
Please keep us posted if there are anything we can do to help, e.g. testing etc.
I was active testing the alfa and beta versions of 6.0.0 and would love to continue doing it.

One thing that might be useful is get in contact with the MineColonies people.
They use a modified version of Schematica to build and upgrade buildings.
Schematica already have a 1.8.9 version working. Downside is that all building and all versions has to be saved in schematica format. And I guess there might be a problem with defining panels and points.

GalianRyu · Post by **GalianRyu** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:10 am

Right now I am familiarizing myself with the code and how Millenaire works, and as Kinniken said, there is alot of code.

I want to try and as much as possible make sure the update continues to work in a way that keeps the custom content here on the site viable. That said, I also want to make sure there aren't File I/O problems everywhere, so we'll see what happens. But I will keep Schematica in mind.

Post by **Kinniken** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:53 am

Good luck to you

For Schematica, it would be quite complicated. Millénaire needs a lot of meta info from buildings on top of the blocks themselves, I don't know how that would fit...

MoonCutter2B · Post by **MoonCutter2B** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:05 pm

I might have some ideas around the schematica format if/when that might be up for discussion.

Are you still looking for more modders to help?
And if so how can they get in contact?

Regarding file i/o problem - consider implementing some sort of backup system so that at least some of the saved data survives a crash.

Jorh · Post by **Jorh** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:47 am

Are we having any more bugfixes for 1.7.10? Personally, that's what I'm most interested in. Most of my other mods are on 1.7.10. I really like this mod but I don't play very often due to issues that might require a server reset (I play with a grand total of 1 friend on a personal server). That said, I'm not trying to ask for this for free, I'm willing to put in the work to make it happen.

I'm not so experienced with modding. My experiences hacking a "build" chore onto MCA villagers in 1.8

https://github.com/Jorhlok/minecraft-co ... e/tree/1.8 (build chore)
https://github.com/Jorhlok/radix-core/tree/1.8 (schematic reader for external files)

If you'll have me, I'd like to take a whack at it.

MoonCutter2B · Post by **MoonCutter2B** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:32 pm

Try contacting Kinniken and GalianRyu with an in forum personal message to see what you can help with.
We have gone through all 5.x.x and 6.0.0 bug reports (and some of the older also) and there is a common problem with the reading and saving data from the Millenaire files, specially when unloading and loading chunks.
There is also a general problem with the integration with forge. This could be the reason that there are a lot more problems running Millenaire on a server.

My personal guess is that its way to much work to first fix all this on 1.7.10 and then port/rewrite/update/whatever to 1.8.9.

With Thaumcraft, Tinkers Construct and Buildcraft on 1.8.9 or at least a alfa/beta-versions on 1.8.9 I guess a lot of ppl with switch soonish.

MoonCutter2B · Post by **MoonCutter2B** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:49 pm

Kinniken:

Once there is a 1.8.9 version I think it will be time to do something about the MCF-thread. 2073 pages and most of is already history and the rest will be so soon.

I'm still pondering on the Schematica thing. The metadata is a challenge but I have a few ideas that might work.

How is the contact with the other people who have contributed with cultures and buildings? Can they help solve the more content specific problems?

oblisgr · Post by **oblisgr** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:17 pm

Guys i have nearly complete a itemslist.txt with all the items and the IDs of every item and block of the latest version. All entries are organized by material and name.

Want it for your update?

EniracY · Post by **EniracY** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:58 pm

This mod is my all-time favourite mod for Minecraft, except for maybe OptiFine or something.

I have no experience with making mods for Minecraft, I'm afraid to say but I'm happy to help in any way I can. Be it testing, writing or I'm not terrible at drawing.

So excited and happy to hear this is being worked on (or thought about, at least)

Post by **Ticlon** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:21 pm

Cool to see that Millenaire is not dead and lives on!
When this is upgraded to 1.8.9 as most important task and of course bug-fixed, I could finally finish the Byzantine culture... And I am talking about armoured 'Cataphract'-Horses, a Creation Quest chapter about the Nether tied to the ability to buy a Byzantine Siphon-flamethrower (Greek Fire), and last but not least the usage of the new banners to add a special random generated flag for each village.
But first things first, and of course I need to find time for this because of university, but I just wanted to say I am still here from time to time checking the forum!
Good luck updating and a big thanks, and greetings to Kinniken after a quite long time

MoonCutter2B · Post by **MoonCutter2B** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:31 pm

Ticlon: If you have the time could you check your "market" - in my latest world all Byzantine market npc's (the trading guys) was "holding their stalls" behind the building and not inside?

GalianRyu · Post by **GalianRyu** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:20 am

Glad to see people are excited and eager to see the new content.

To address one of the most FAQ: There most likely won't be a bug-fix for 1.7.10. I am truly sorry, but fixing the bugs will require some serious overhaul to how Millenaire works on the back end, and since updating to 1.8.9 will also be a major overhaul, the best strategy is to combine them into one rewrite...rather than rewriting everything for 1.7.10 and then rewriting it again for 1.8.9

As people are saying though, everything is moving forward. Forge has fixed a lot of issues people were holding their breath for, so I know at least all the mods I frequently follow are finally getting their update on. By the time I can get it stable, you will probably be able to play it along side all your favorites.

Flibberdee · Post by **Flibberdee** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:57 pm

It is totally understandable about not doing a bug fix for 1.7.10. I, myself, can stand the bugs with the bright hope of a release for 1.8.9. Keep up the good work and thank you for the update.

Gavinator25 · Post by **Gavinator25** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:49 pm

Very excited that Millenaire has kept going as long as it has. Some of my favorite minecraft moments involve this mod. I am also glad this website has continued to allow people to create and add to this mod. Thank you Kin for working hard for so long, and I continue to look forward to the future of this mod.

Ether · Post by **Ether** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:48 am

Amazing news! I'm really glad that mod doesn't die out and be forgotten and we can wait for new shiny 1.8.9 version in future

Mod migration to 1.8.9 looks better and better, so I hope we can have new diverse modpacks soon there and see Millenaire in good shape again. Very excited about this!
Thank you all for this great effort!

Zoythrus · Post by **Zoythrus** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:26 pm

Ticlon wrote: the usage of the new banners to add a special random generated flag for each village.

GalianRyu, take note of this, as that would be an absolutely awesome minor cosmetic addition to all villages. Of course, not right now, but man, that'd really add to the immersion. Bonus points if these banners can appear throughout villages normally (like on paths and stuff), and they're all identical for particular villages, like a coat of arms or something.

GalianRyu · Post by **GalianRyu** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:27 am

Zoythrus wrote:
Ticlon wrote: the usage of the new banners to add a special random generated flag for each village.
GalianRyu, take note of this, as that would be an absolutely awesome minor cosmetic addition to all villages. Of course, not right now, but man, that'd really add to the immersion. Bonus points if these banners can appear throughout villages normally (like on paths and stuff), and they're all identical for particular villages, like a coat of arms or something.

I do like that idea...*jots that one down for later*.

MoonCutter2B · Post by **MoonCutter2B** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:40 pm

You need any testing done yet or is it to early?

Jorh · Post by **Jorh** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:19 pm

MoonCutter2B wrote:You need any testing done yet or is it to early?

I'd imagine waaaaaaaaaaay too early.

MoonCutter2B · Post by **MoonCutter2B** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:04 pm

Jorh wrote:
MoonCutter2B wrote:You need any testing done yet or is it to early?
I'd imagine waaaaaaaaaaay too early.

I'm sure you are correct - but one could always wish

I know that once it gets close to some alfa or beta version it will need lots of play testing to make sure everything is ok. When I beta tested the 6.0.0. version I spent a lot of time testing and I think going to 1.8.9 will require a much more testing of many more players.

I really hope that all old and existing content creators are aware that an update is in progress and that they can help solving some of the "problems" in the cultures and add-ons.

Post by **felinoel** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:54 am

Zoythrus wrote:
Ticlon wrote: the usage of the new banners to add a special random generated flag for each village.
GalianRyu, take note of this, as that would be an absolutely awesome minor cosmetic addition to all villages. Of course, not right now, but man, that'd really add to the immersion. Bonus points if these banners can appear throughout villages normally (like on paths and stuff), and they're all identical for particular villages, like a coat of arms or something.

Maybe make it randomly generated but make certain cultures choose between a limited number of colors and designs to make it culture-specific but also unique.

Zoythrus · Post by **Zoythrus** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:44 pm

felinoel wrote:
Zoythrus wrote:
Ticlon wrote: the usage of the new banners to add a special random generated flag for each village.
GalianRyu, take note of this, as that would be an absolutely awesome minor cosmetic addition to all villages. Of course, not right now, but man, that'd really add to the immersion. Bonus points if these banners can appear throughout villages normally (like on paths and stuff), and they're all identical for particular villages, like a coat of arms or something.
Maybe make it randomly generated but make certain cultures choose between a limited number of colors and designs to make it culture-specific but also unique.

I'm down with that. I think that filtering the list of colors and patterns would be hard and tedious, but it would be a nice touch.

GalianRyu · Post by **GalianRyu** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:18 am

I do like the banner idea, picturing it and it would be a nice touch. I haven't even looked at the code for banners yet, but I'll need to examine decorative entities at some point, as I'm sure people would like for the Millenaire tapestries, icons, etc. to actually work again.

MoonCutter2B · Post by **MoonCutter2B** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:10 pm

Can you say anything about the work so far? I know you said you were going to look into the IO side first.

GalianRyu · Post by **GalianRyu** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:02 am

So after I went over the code, I discussed it with Kinniken and we agreed that some changes (beyond updating to 1.8.9) needed to be done. Essentially, the mod has existed since Minecraft Alpha and has changed very little as Minecraft has changed a lot.

Not to bore you with a lot of technical detailed, but Kinniken had a core system he wrote that handled all the I/O and network packeting and was (by his words) kind of hack-y. No need for that now though, as Forge has perfect systems to handle that for you.

but removing that means I am, in a very literal sense, rewriting the entire mod. I have the new framework in place and am currently updating the Blocks and Items, as they are the biggest change from 1.7.10 and sorta required to get buildings and other stuff going lol. Once the blocks are working, I can bring in villagers and make sure building and village mechanics work. Its hard to say how long it will take because it depends on how much each piece depended on that central system, but we're looking at at least another few weeks.

One thing I have been mulling over is custom content. The current method is wholly dependent on the file system we've removed, so it needs to be updated. I want make sure that the current library is able to be brought forward with minimal effort, but I also want to make it easier for new people to learn, since we have the option.

My current thought is to use configs. Most of the current text files can easily just be renamed to .cfg files and would still work. The buildings would be a different matter, but I want to see if I can make something similar to Atomic Stryker's Ruins Mod. It has a method of creating custom buildings in-game that generates a .cfg file with a hash (ginormous string of numbers) that represents the exact metadata and placement of the blocks in the building. I figure something like that is both pretty quick to recreate current buildings, but also much easier for newbies to learn (especially with some video tutorials). Thoughts on that? Obviously, the custom generators would come after the main mod is released (but not super long after).

MoonCutter2B · Post by **MoonCutter2B** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:16 pm

I'm very happy with the report and the progress.

So not using schematica/MCedit format? I use schematica ingame to save stuff.
Other are using parts of the schematica code (with permission) for buildings.

Someone said that the metadata is a problem, I guess Atomic has a solution for this?
Else we need a separate way to define beds, and other spots etc. And panels ofc.

Zoythrus · Post by **Zoythrus** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:11 am

Glad to hear that Galian Ryu is making progress!

While he does that, the rest of us should find a way to help him out! I mean, he needs all the help he can get.

Post by **felinoel** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:07 pm

Zoythrus wrote:Glad to hear that Galian Ryu is making progress!

While he does that, the rest of us should find a way to help him out! I mean, he needs all the help he can get.

But how?

Zoythrus · Post by **Zoythrus** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:03 am

felinoel wrote:
Zoythrus wrote:Glad to hear that Galian Ryu is making progress!

While he does that, the rest of us should find a way to help him out! I mean, he needs all the help he can get.
But how?

There's a few topic floating around about things like balance and restructuring the cultures. Maybe we can help out by doing all of the balance work for him.

MoonCutter2B · Post by **MoonCutter2B** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:52 pm

a) If the data format is change for e.g. buildings there will be a lot of things to do
b) there are some stuff in the Library that Galian wants to include
c) there are a few bugs in the data, like missing sell and buy prices that has to be fixed
d) there are a few missing strings and translations that is one of the reasons for blank panels bug
etc.

Post by **felinoel** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:07 pm

MoonCutter2B wrote:a) If the data format is change for e.g. buildings there will be a lot of things to do
b) there are some stuff in the Library that Galian wants to include
c) there are a few bugs in the data, like missing sell and buy prices that has to be fixed
d) there are a few missing strings and translations that is one of the reasons for blank panels bug
etc.

It sounds to me like the image source format will remain the same.

GalianRyu · Post by **GalianRyu** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:44 am

felinoel wrote:
MoonCutter2B wrote:a) If the data format is change for e.g. buildings there will be a lot of things to do
b) there are some stuff in the Library that Galian wants to include
c) there are a few bugs in the data, like missing sell and buy prices that has to be fixed
d) there are a few missing strings and translations that is one of the reasons for blank panels bug
etc.
It sounds to me like the image source format will remain the same.

This is something I am very up in the air on, though I have kind of shoved it to the back of my mind, since I plan to release Millenaire as soon as it's playable, and then start working on recreating the custom content interface afterward.

But the issue I have is that the current, image-based system is: A) Completely dependent on the custom FIle IO system Kinniken wrote (I didn't even know you *could* import a .BMP and read the color/location of pixels in it), and B) Really, almost stupidly, complicated. I know you guys have all mastered it, but one of the biggest barriers to anyone who would want to start creating their own custom content is figuring that part out; look at some of the unfinished add-ons in the library, their buildings are always kinda jacked because that's one of the hardest parts to figure out.

So since I'm looking at a significant amount of work to bring that system in anyway, I'm consideirng how to make it better. At the same time, I don't want you guys to have to reinvent the wheel to bring your content forward. This is why I thought something where you designed buildings in-game would work. Its easy to figure out, especially with good tutorials, and redoing a building that why is simple and pretty fast, since it's just creative mode building.

We can talk more about it when it's closer on the timeline, but I just wanted to share my thought process on it with you guys.

Post by **felinoel** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:37 pm

GalianRyu wrote:But the issue I have is that the current, image-based system is: A) Completely dependent on the custom FIle IO system Kinniken wrote (I didn't even know you *could* import a .BMP and read the color/location of pixels in it), and B) Really, almost stupidly, complicated.

Plenty of other people use it, like Starbound itself.

I know you guys have all mastered it, but one of the biggest barriers to anyone who would want to start creating their own custom content is figuring that part out; look at some of the unfinished add-ons in the library, their buildings are always kinda jacked because that's one of the hardest parts to figure out.

There was some software at some point that automatically generated it and I personally only used it for final tweaks, as you can see in my modding Millenaire series I used the import/export feature to export out the ingame design into an image file.

So since I'm looking at a significant amount of work to bring that system in anyway, I'm consideirng how to make it better. At the same time, I don't want you guys to have to reinvent the wheel to bring your content forward. This is why I thought something where you designed buildings in-game would work. Its easy to figure out, especially with good tutorials, and redoing a building that why is simple and pretty fast, since it's just creative mode building.

So... something like what is currently in place but without the exporting buildings ingame to an image file?

GalianRyu · Post by **GalianRyu** » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:15 am

felinoel wrote:
So since I'm looking at a significant amount of work to bring that system in anyway, I'm consideirng how to make it better. At the same time, I don't want you guys to have to reinvent the wheel to bring your content forward. This is why I thought something where you designed buildings in-game would work. Its easy to figure out, especially with good tutorials, and redoing a building that why is simple and pretty fast, since it's just creative mode building.
So... something like what is currently in place but without the exporting buildings ingame to an image file?

I really do need to watch your series, I didn't know there was any way to export the images, I'll have to see how you did it. But yes, I've been using AtomicStryker's Ruins as an example, where you can make a custom building and it will save all the data as a hash value in a .cfg file and then you just include the appropriate files in a folder when you're setting up a new server/map/etc.

Post by **felinoel** » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:34 pm

GalianRyu wrote:
felinoel wrote:
So since I'm looking at a significant amount of work to bring that system in anyway, I'm consideirng how to make it better. At the same time, I don't want you guys to have to reinvent the wheel to bring your content forward. This is why I thought something where you designed buildings in-game would work. Its easy to figure out, especially with good tutorials, and redoing a building that why is simple and pretty fast, since it's just creative mode building.
So... something like what is currently in place but without the exporting buildings ingame to an image file?
I really do need to watch your series, I didn't know there was any way to export the images, I'll have to see how you did it. But yes, I've been using AtomicStryker's Ruins as an example, where you can make a custom building and it will save all the data as a hash value in a .cfg file and then you just include the appropriate files in a folder when you're setting up a new server/map/etc.

http://millenaire.org/wiki/Guide_on_exp ... m_the_game

GalianRyu · Post by **GalianRyu** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:16 am

felinoel wrote:http://millenaire.org/wiki/Guide_on_exp ... m_the_game

Hmm....That changes everything. It sounds like this is pretty close to what I was considering, maybe it just needs some refinement (since people have trouble with misplaced torches, signs, wrong type of chest, etc.)

I'll dig into the code and figure out where these tools reside and pull them forward when I am getting the custom content update ready.

Zoythrus · Post by **Zoythrus** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:37 pm

GalianRyu wrote:
felinoel wrote:http://millenaire.org/wiki/Guide_on_exp ... m_the_game
Hmm....That changes everything. It sounds like this is pretty close to what I was considering, maybe it just needs some refinement (since people have trouble with misplaced torches, signs, wrong type of chest, etc.)

I'll dig into the code and figure out where these tools reside and pull them forward when I am getting the custom content update ready.

It's actually a really nifty procedure. I've used it plenty of times myself, and it's quite flexible and robust. I kinda want you to keep it, honestly.